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TravisEdward (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
I completely agree, and I did know about the israel philharmonic, that is a prime example. Another prime example, last year at interlochen, the orchestra was performing barbers first essay, and the conductor did not show up. they did the thing without a conductor, YOUTHS! It is definitely a wonderful thing to see that. Yes, orchestras are just a bunch of chamber groups in one, and one giant chamber group in its own right.
organman52 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
I agree on all points except about the 'extra humanity.' What most people don't realize is that symphonic music is 'expanded' chamber music. A piano trio, string quartet, quintet, octet, etc., do not use a conductor - it is a beautiful collaboration. The same should be the case for symphonies. Did you know that the Israel Phil. recorded the Brahms Haydn Variations without a conductor - Istvan Kertesz had died just before completing the Brahms series. It's a perfect performance in every respect.
TravisEdward (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
sure, extra humanity is great, and sometimes it is interesting to see a conductors point of view of a piece, because a lot of times the musicians in the group do not study the score as extensively as some conductors do. However, what is really magical, is seeing a group of musicians playing a piece completely without conductor, reading each others body language,feeding off of everyone in the ensembles own kind of "conducting", their phrasing, and musicality. That is some special stuff.
organman52 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
Some conductors are indeed lovely individuals. But I've known enough of them to know that I don't like the entire profile they project. In my eye, all they do is act at the music. They actually think it's necessary to start gyrating wildly every time piano suddenly goes to forte - as if the musicians can't SEE the dynamics in their parts. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra is a tremendous example of what we're talking about here. And every 'small ensemble' does just fine without them.
TravisEdward (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
I am on your side organman, I do not believe that conductors are necessary, however, there is nothing wrong with them.
Hannele13 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
Very good and interesting
organman52 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
Hey - did everyone notice that glasscage01 has closed his youtube account? He/she will no doubt open up another one under a different name. And just when I thought we were becoming CLOSE FRIENDS ! Well, I find you - don't worry.
organman52 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
You reveal your utter ignorance by asking the question 'what difference does it make....?' You also reveal your complete lack of respect for the master composers, not to mention your lack of knowledge. Performers today substitute knowledge with what is referred to as 'interpretation.' In my view, interpretation is a substitute for knowledge. Knowledge is acquired by STUDYING the composer's markings - every one of them. 'Interpretation' is an excuse. Think however you wish - it is your right.
glasscage01 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
What difference does it make if composers have an exact idea or not? Performers have to make musical decisions, and unless the composer is alive and they're lucky enough to work with him/her, they aren't going to know exactly what he/she wants. Once again, I say that in orchestras, conductors make most of those decisions.
Your reply is off topic from the argument about conductors and their importance. (and Beethoven wouldn't need to conduct his symphonies using your argument!)
organman52 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)
Very good point - different performances do indeed sound different. But don't you think that the master composer had an exact idea in mind as to how his music should go? Or are you one of those individuals that believes that the score is simply a guide or a suggestion, and that performers can do anything they damn well please? Do you think Beethoven, for example, would conduct one of his symphonies differently from concert to concert? If you do, then please don't waste my time. |
